Character perspectives and narrator styles

[Claire]

So we had this topic on Ravishu before it went down, and I really liked it. Let's talk a bit more about it here, too. First, maybe a question to our authors. I think the vast majority of stories are told from a third person limited perspective - that is, told in the third person through the eyes of an individual character. When you write a story, how much conscious thought do you put into the choice of the narrator style?

To me it's like this: Unless I have a very specific idea, I seem to default to third person limited. I can't remember ever having contemplated to write a story with a third-person omniscient narrator. There is one short moment at the end of chapter 5 of Record Chaser where the narration shifts for two or lines or so from limited to omniscient, but that's it.

And I find even more interesting that I have written only one story with a first-person narrator although I like first person narration a lot. I think that in my case, the reason might be that I consider the first-person narrator to be limiting in a sense. I like to switch the point of view in my stories, sometimes multiple times within a single chapter. When I choose first-person, it feels like I'm committing to a point of view. That is of course objectively not true. I could tell a story with multiple first person narrators. But point of view shifts in that narrator style feel more unnatural to me than for third person narrators. Is that the same for you? Do you just default to third person limited or do you weigh your options consciously for each story you write?

And if you consider yourself primarily a reader: to what degree do the narrator style and the POV matter to you? Do you have a clear preference?

[LaLia]

I'm flexible in this regard and enjoy both. You've correctly described your arguments for the third person or narrator role. The one-sidedness in particular can be problematic and, of course, limits certain things. Plot lines are limited, and some information is difficult to share. On the other hand, I personally find it easier to express feelings and thoughts in the first person.

For me, it's usually like this: if I imagine myself in the story, then in the first person, and otherwise in the third person. The danger with the first person, however, is your own imagination, and you often have to take a break when your mind's eye is working too hard.

As a reader, I like both somewhat equally...

[Vela Nanashi]

My old writing was always third person omniscient, or at least all character's minds were open to reader, so I could describe what they all sensed, thought, felt and did. However then I got inspired to try out other perspectives, and I found second person interesting but not really useful for most stories, and requiring too much from the reader to work, and first person that to me is easier to sink into the character I am reading/writing, and it seems to cause less resistance than second person perspective for me, but same intensity.

I also prefer present tense, as then you live in the moment, and that is the most intense to me, it is not a story told about what happened by a survivor of the events, but rather it is a story about what is happening, by those who participate in the events, and may not survive them, so the full spectrum of tension is there.

For role play with one person I like to use a mixed first and second person perspective, where my main character is expressed in first person by me, and I express what your character (the other player) senses (see, feel touch, hear, taste, etc) but I don't put thoughts or emotions in your head unless there is some form of mind fuckery going on or when instinct should give you a feeling, such as huge dragon with glistening teeth turning to face you and the fire glowing at their throat and the intense heat is building as they narrow their eyes on you, you feel fear or you get stuck trying to squeeze through a narrow passage in the cave system, it is dark, you can barely even breathe shallow breaths any more as the ground is pressing your rib cage from both sides, your elbows hit stone as you try to wiggle your arms, and now you feel hundreds of tiny legs crawling up your leg, like tiny sharp needles, I think a lot of people would feel a tiny bit of panic in that situation I will describe other characters in such role plays without seeing into their heads, you just sense what they do and hear what they say etc, so they are kind of in third person but limited perspective.

First person always has those third person others in it unless that one character is alone in the place they are in. In second person perspective there is also that third person perspective built in too. Full third person is one way to write multiple points of view in one big mess

I have also devised a few ways that one can tell a story from multiple perspectives at the same time, and allow the reader to choose what perspective they want to read, and not the others or several, I will try to implement bbcodes for doing one of those variants on this forum eventually, if not those stories will only be available to download from somewhere, not to read on the forum. That type of story is harder to write though, but I think personally it was worth it for me, would be nice to write a good editor to make that kind of story easier to write though.

I will try to describe those ways later and put a story up so that you can see what it looks like. Basically though it is several first person perspectives, that some of those intersect in a time, and place, or in an event, but sometimes I can also have several stories that are told at the same time, but different places, though I have not gotten super far in those yet, but I have a few ideas for stories that follow several characters who may have a book worth of story each, that could be published separately, but if you have all of them in digital form you could follow the entire story sort of omniscient reader of multiple first person perspectives.

Anyway that is enough babble about that from me

[Shocker]

As my first reply didn’t make it through, let’s try one more time. Most of my stories are third party omniscient, because I have different motivations for a larger cast, and don’t want to reveal them in dialogue (example witch hunt). Valentina is deliberately written in limited as I wanted the narrator to be ignorant about the thoughts of others.

I do use first person on occasion when I want to create a feeling of greater intimacy in the reader.

[Claire]

The one-sidedness in particular can be problematic and, of course, limits certain things.

Did you ever consider to just use multiple first person narrators and switch between them? It makes me wonder whether something interesting could be done with this. Pulling off a story that switches seemingly between different perspectives told from the first-person, keeping the reader guessing which character they are following currently. That's probably extremely difficult tp pull off, but it could be fun.

I do use first person on occasion when I want to create a feeling of greater intimacy in the reader.

I get that. That was my motivation to write Venus' Touch in first person, too.

I also prefer present tense, as then you live in the moment

Uhh, that's actually almost another topic to discuss. I think the only time I chose present tense was for You. It came kind of natural with the second-person narrator. But I get what you mean. Present tense can make feel things closer while reading. I guess you also feel less safe while reading.

For role play I guess this to be a different all together. There is always the issue to which degree you dictate the experience of the others, especially if you write a longer paragraph in one go. For role play, first-person seems to be the most natural to me, but I might be wrong about that.

[Vela Nanashi]

Role play with one other person works great with first person for your character, and second person to describe what other character might sense. Though if you have a group setting it gets harder to do first person, but it can be done, but it is harder to do the second person thing for multiple characters, it could also be done though. I sometimes prefix multiple first person perspectives by putting the name of the character followed by :

Cara: as the sun sets I strip naked, I apply moon oil all over my body and hair and bring out my two swords and start my evening sword dance, the last rays of the sun caress me with their warmth as I make my blades heavier to really strain my muscles, as the sun sets I feel the star and moon light caress me and the cool evening winds caress my sweat glazed skin making me get goose bumps.

John: I hear a woman straining and get curious and follow the sounds curiously, and peek from around a tree, I see a gorgeous naked oiled and glazed with sweat blonde elven woman with two elven long swords that she is dancing with, her scent is alluring, making my whole soul and body erupt with lust and hunger for her.

Tara: You are sitting up in your hunting hide in the old oak tree and see a man watching Cara's usual sword dance, you can see him trembling and his huge erection is straining against his brown well worn leather pants, you have almost without thinking finished fletching your last arrow that you were making for the hunt you and Cara are going to go on tomorrow.

Mike: You wonder where John went, he said he was just gonna take a leak, but he has been gone a long time for that, and the stew is almost ready to eat, it smells delicious.

[LaLia]

@Vela Nanashi

In RSP, the third person is especially well-suited for taking on the role of narrator and then describing different characters or even incorporating gang themes. It's quite exciting.

I always ask: "How many movies and books are there that actually only feature two characters?"

[KittyUmbrass]

I tend to go 3rd person limited, unless I'm using a framing device such as a storyteller narrating a history to an audience, in which case, 3rd person omniscent, or if I want it to be a more direct involvement - for instance, a confession (1st person).

I did manage to write a story in 2nd person perspective, with the framing device of a witness who watched what the rapist did and wrote a blackmail message to that rapist.

I don't often head-hop in any style, and will only do so when there's no other way to give the required context. If I'm going to do that, I will try to be 3rd person limited, and try to make it consistent throughout the story, with clear indicators to separate them - usually location at least (so, no switchign back and forth between rapist and victim during the assault!)

[LtBroccoli]

It depends on the story, but the key is to stay consistent in the story. I might change who's telling the story, but I don't like having multiple points of view in the same section. When I've had a chance to tell both sides of a story, I'll put a section or chapter break to change who's telling the story.

Most of my stories are third person limited or non-omniscient. I have a background in writing screenplays so the mantra is "Show don't tell." Unless I want to specifically be in the character's mind, I'd rather show what they're thinking by their actions and body language. Though I have had a few stories that were first person tales. Those ones feel more stream-of-consciousness when writing.

[LaLia]

The one-sidedness in particular can be problematic and, of course, limits certain things.

Did you ever consider to just use multiple first person narrators and switch between them? It makes me wonder whether something interesting could be done with this. Pulling off a story that switches seemingly between different perspectives told from the first-person, keeping the reader guessing which character they are following currently. That's probably extremely difficult tp pull off, but it could be fun.

That would be a challenge, but wouldn't that also be too complicated to read? For one of my next stories, I'm thinking about using multiple perspectives and an omniscient narrator. And even then, I'm already considering how best to implement that so that it's still understandable.