Men at War

[Claire]

@riffraff I glad you liked it. And I agree, while I was writing this, I thought more than once that there might be some people out there that believe in something like this three hole philosophy. Of course the story is over the top, but whenever you hear someone say about a woman "She just needs to get fucked properly" when they think she's annoying for some reason, I think that there are similar feelings behind that statement.

Feel free to tell me more about these literary circles in the 19th century. I am actually not familiar with those. What did they do? Just write misogynistic texts or did it go deeper than that?

@LaLia That was kind of what Irenova's Patriarchat 2035 story was about. I wish you had joined us a month earlier and could have contributed to that. Would have been fun.

[riffraff]

@Claire
just simple sexism that was normal during that time coupled with the rejection of first wave feminism. Some circles had a strict 'no women' policy and even bordered on homoeroticism in their male to male relationship.

Since I see a lot of Germans here, a famous example would be the Heidelberger George Kreis.

[Lucius]

I loved it, the present manosphere in the atmosphere of a 'late early' Pedro Almodóvar rape comedy! I've liked 'Catharsis' best, but it was a close call.

... the contrast between their absurd, cruel ideology and the wholesomeness and open vulnerability with which they treat each other ...

It has happened all too often IRL -- a community treating its members only as fully human, and I'm not necessarily talking about the Herrenvolk thing. Exclusive intellectual circles mentioned by @riffraff tend to slide into this, and their 'sprouting outgrowths of derangement' kill.

But I'm getting too serious.

[Claire]

@Lucius You are making comparisons here I'm not sure I can keep up with. I'm glad you enjoyed it!

It has happened all too often IRL -- a community treating its members only as fully human

I don't doubt that at all. But I don't believe that any of these male circles treated each other with the open vulnerability and care like the men in Men at War do. Can you imagine a bunch of Jordan Peterson apostles hugging each other naked while one of their peers is about to cry to comfort him? I'm not saying there might not be some latent homosexual energy in those groups that might lead to some physical contact. I'm sure there is. But they would never be as kind and caring to one of their own if he showed weakness like Jacob does here. I find that hard to believe. Don't you think the reaction in real life would be more like "Don't be a pussy!" or a bit more compassionate "No reason to cry, you can come insid her from now on however often you want."? I just find it hard to imagine that these feelings would actually be acknowledged.

[Lucius]

But I don't believe that any of these male circles treated each other with the open vulnerability and care like the men in Men at War do. Can you imagine a bunch of Jordan Peterson apostles hugging each other naked while one of their peers is about to cry to comfort him? I'm not saying there might not be some latent homosexual energy in those groups that might lead to some physical contact. I'm sure there is. But they would never be as kind and caring to one of their own if he showed weakness like Jacob does here. I find that hard to believe. Don't you think the reaction in real life would be more like "Don't be a pussy!" or a bit more compassionate "No reason to cry, you can come insid her from now on however often you want."? I just find it hard to imagine that these feelings would actually be acknowledged.

Frankly, I can't imagine this exact thing happening IRL, but yours is a satyrical story, and satires -- satyrs as well -- cry out for this kind of overdoing things. My point is, exclusivity breeds contempt for those outside the magic circle. Within, a wide variety of relationship structures may exist -- the members regard themselves as real human beings, whereas the others are found lacking. Yet -- given enough time -- this contempt poisons the minds of the inititiates and they often turn on one another... which makes the dynamic of compassion shown here impossible, of course.

But we're in a satire.

[Claire]

@Lucius I can't imagine this happening either. The logistics alone of carrying out an operation like this without getting caught I imagine to be a nightmare... Quite frankly, 25K for an operation like this sounds like a bargain! But enough cynicism. I don't call your insight into question that this in-group out-group dynamic dehumanizes the others and elevates your own people. But I would still argue that it doesen't follow from that that the members of the in-group can show genuine vulnerability to each other. That is the only point I wanted to make.