Writing and Reading Rape Fantasy Stories - The Ethical Implications

[Blue]

I've often thought about the question of whether a woman experiencing rape can actually have a real orgasm. I haven't come to a clear conclusion.
There are numerous non-fiction books in which rape victims speak out and describe their experiences. Occasionally, you read that it's actually possible for a woman to have an orgasm during a rape. Whether this is due to purely mechanical stimulation or whether she may have actually felt pleasure is unfortunately rarely discussed.
I admit that, especially in the early days, I wrote in one or two stories about the victim(s) experiencing pleasure or even having an orgasm during the rape. In rape play, that's often the point of the game. But in reality? I think it's rather unlikely. That's why, lately, I've only been describing physical reactions of the victims. Reactions that are simply triggered, for example, by friction on certain body parts, etc. That a rape victim actually has an orgasm in my recent stories is probably the exception.
Yes, it may, of course, be appealing from the rapist's perspective to manipulate their victim into actually having an orgasm. They assume that this must be even more embarrassing for the victim. But I think something like that rarely happens in reality. Perhaps in a home rape, where the rapist has plenty of time to "take care" of their victim.

And what is the hallmark of this site?
For me, it's the appeal of reading about the most diverse scenarios. Whether contemporary stories, science fiction, or historical events: the diversity is so vast that I've rarely seen it before.

[Corvid]

I observed a while ago that there was a lot of "she's raped, but she comes to enjoy it" in pornography in the seventies and eighties, and while I would never seek to rain on anyone's parade who enjoys that sort of thing, I personally found it a bit disturbing. When you start with the foundation of "we all understand that this is fantasy, yes?", things like this suggest to me that while the creator may have paid lip service to that idea, their need to mollify their own guilt by having the victim enjoy the act may mean that the division isn't quite as strong in their own mind as they might let on. Why, after all, are they concerned about the feelings of a character who doesn't actually exist? Beyond that, there's a kind of "by freeing <her> from the shackles of societal expectations and her own prudishness, releasing <her> inner slut, <he's> actually done her a favor", that... just... ugh.

We're all the heroes of our own stories; people come up with remarkable justifications for their behavior. I grow uneasy when someone almost seems to be building a sort of internal "legal argument" as to why their fantasy is "okay". If you don't want to see it played out in real life, it doesn't matter if it's "okay", right?...

...Right?...

More broadly, I've spent a good chunk of my life struggling with these things. I think a succinct summation might be: Yes, I'm a sadist. Yes, I have some desires that might make others uncomfortable. The fact that in my-day-to-day life, the vast majority of people would never guess that I harbored such feelings is a pretty good indicator that I'm not burdening anyone to deal with those desires that doesn't want to. I obtain a certain enjoyment from sharing fantasies with those who do. I don't delude myself that everyone is like me, or that every man is secretly on the dominant/sadistic side of things, or every woman on the submissive/masochistic side, nor ought to be, even if some characters in my stories might justify themselves with such delusions.

I am still on reasonably cordial speaking terms with those women I have had sexual relationships with, which experience suggests puts me in a better place than a lot of people with more "mainstream" sexual relationships.

I didn't necessarily come there easily, but I'm okay with what I am, and who I am... And anyone who presumes to tell me that I'm not okay, from a position of considerably less information about the person lurking inside of this body, is likely telling me something unfortunate about themselves, not telling me something about myself, however much they might wish to believe to the contrary.

[Claire]

I've often thought about the question of whether a woman experiencing rape can actually have a real orgasm. I haven't come to a clear conclusion.
There are numerous non-fiction books in which rape victims speak out and describe their experiences. Occasionally, you read that it's actually possible for a woman to have an orgasm during a rape. Whether this is due to purely mechanical stimulation or whether she may have actually felt pleasure is unfortunately rarely discussed.
I admit that, especially in the early days, I wrote in one or two stories about the victim(s) experiencing pleasure or even having an orgasm during the rape. In rape play, that's often the point of the game. But in reality? I think it's rather unlikely. That's why, lately, I've only been describing physical reactions of the victims. Reactions that are simply triggered, for example, by friction on certain body parts, etc. That a rape victim actually has an orgasm in my recent stories is probably the exception.

So, a few months ago I looked a bit into this, and by that I mean I tried to see what actual academic research says about the issue of rape victims (female and male) experiencing physical arousal or even orgasms during rape. If I remember correctly, the numbers that studies found on that topic fluctuated greatly between 5% and 50% of all victims. These numbers are of course based on questionnaires, so take all of it with a grain of salt, but the reality is: Yes, it does happen and probably more often than one might think at first.

The issue is, how you interpret that. You talked about a "real orgasm" and the word "real" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Is it a real orgsm if it doesn't feel good but is only a physical reaction of your body? If a man was past his point of no return and just before he starts ejaculating gets sucker punched in his stomach, taking his breath away, I suppose the body would go through with the process of ejaculation, but I would guess it wouldn't feel particularly good as he's gasping for air. Would that be a "real orgasm"? And of course, physical arousal does also not imply that something feels good. I'm always a bit surprised that especially men seem to ponder this. I woke up next to men who had erections in the morning that would suggest great arousal, but when I looked into their face all it told me was: "5 more minutes please..." Isn't the famous morning wood the best example of a physical reaction that has little connection to acual pleasure?

[RapeU]

I do a mix of both in my stories. Sometimes the story situations calls for the woman to have an orgasm, sometimes I write it in based on a story request. The one time I did it where I didn't really like it was in my Red Rose Rapist story, where the requester had asked for women to have multiple orgasms during each rape. I provided, but I think it's highly unrealistic that a woman is able to have more orgasms than a man does, even when the sex is consensual. It may be possible if the man has taken Viagra or some kind of enhancement drug, or is a young adult who has peaked with testosterone, but the average male? Not going to happen.

A few stories I specified that the victim didn't feel any pleasure, only pain as the assault happened, and it worked for that particular story.

Then there's one of my stories, The Vault, where I described the sex for the victim as her bathing in searing pain when suddenly fire burned throughout her body and the orgasm crashed into her like a wave of acid. This was a combination of both worlds were no pleasure was felt until suddenly her body gave a response to the stimulation out of nowhere. That description in the story is likely the most realistic, as I would imagine a victim - especially a virgin - would feel pain because the man she's forced to have sex with doesn't care about her feelings or if she feels good like a lover would. And if the body reacted to stimulation with an orgasm, it would likely come as a nasty surprise and enhance the feelings of self loathing, despair, and hopelessness afterwards.

[HistBuff]

And of course, physical arousal does also not imply that something feels good. I'm always a bit surprised that especially men seem to ponder this. I woke up next to men who had erections in the morning that would suggest great arousal, but when I looked into their face all it told me was: "5 more minutes please..." Isn't the famous morning wood the best example of a physical reaction that has little connection to acual pleasure?

The link between morning erections and arousal is complex and not entirely exclusive. At times, it's nothing more than physiological, but on other occasions it's a reflection of a generally aroused state. My own experience as a man indicates this. Once in my mid-twenties I had a dream that was sort of scifi military and a group of sort of rebels got cornered in a building by a military force, and I woke up when the female rebels were just about to get raped. This was an early-morning dream and I woke up with a massive boner in an aroused state.

When I had my most severe episodes of porn abuse, my erotic dreams stopped and so did my morning wood. The porn was supplying the brain with erotic imagery and the unnatural mechanics of masturbating alone in front of a computer replaced the natural process of sex and arousal. Once I quit porn, after about three weeks, erotic dreams at night made their return and I once more experienced those morning woods.

My experience has some interesting takeaways about the difference between porn and fantasy. Porn seems so powerful that if it's allowed to rule unchecked, it will basically override dreams and fantasies and ends up twisting them. Fantasy is different as it stems from dreams and real life with a healthy mix of fiction from novels and movies.

When I write and share my (rape) fantasies, it actually feeds my night-time dreams and will not hinder morning woods or real-life sex the way porn will. I may in fact experience more vivid sex dreams when writing a lot; or I may get inspired by a dream as it works both ways. Without porn, my sex/rape scenes tend to be more realistic.

During my teenage years, I played Dungeons & Dragons for a brief spell. I understood I was basically playing for the pleasure of experiencing sexual fantasies about female characters, either non-player characters, or the unsaid prospect of "seeing" female player characters getting captured and raped by orcs. I then decided novels were just as good. Girlfriends worked even better!

[Blue]

... I woke up next to men who had erections in the morning that would suggest great arousal, but when I looked into their face all it told me was: "5 more minutes please..." Isn't the famous morning wood the best example of a physical reaction that has little connection to acual pleasure?

@Claire:
Morning erection (often called "Morgenlatte") is an erection that a man cannot control. There are many articles describing this phenomenon. The most commonly cited explanation is that it's a kind of "automatic training program" the body has for the penis.
And I can understand why some men may have asked for a short break when they noticed they had morning Erection and you want to have sex with them.
For me, morning erection feels very different from a normal erection. For one thing, it's harder, sometimes a little longer. But it's also a completely different feeling. When I actually have sex in this state, it usually lasts much longer than with a normal erection. And I often find it very difficult to achieve orgasm. The sex itself is great, but for some reason, my body is apparently not prepared for orgasm when I have morning wood. Even when I touch myself, I usually don't orgasm. But it's somehow a nice feeling to wake up at 5 a.m. with such an erection

[Vela Nanashi]

Body is like "hey I was just maintaining it, I did not prepare a load, oh you are still going for it, ok let me get a load ready then, but that is so inconsiderate of you, we were not done maintaining it..." or something lol

[skuttrusk]

The morning erection is usually caused by a full bladder pressing on the prostate, so it's a purely physical reaction, which is why en can have such hard-ons but not feel really horny. Another example of this involuntary erection is when men are raped, the prostate stimulation can cause the symptoms of arousal, which often adds to the humiliation. i think the fondness for writing scenes in which women are aroused against their will is a form of projection by men. ALL male erections and flacidities are to some extent outwith our control, and so we imagine women are the same.

[Vela Nanashi]

A question though, if you are sharing the bed with a woman,

willingly

I assume you went to bed with her there and you wanted her there with you, not that you went to bed alone and there is this mystery woman there, or that you were drugged and find yourself handcuffed to the bed or something, or ended up being led by gun point by a woman to the bed, though feel free to steal these for a story...

, and she sees/feels your morning wood, do you take offense to her caressing it and getting excited over it? Or is that a good thing?

[Blue]

A question though, if you are sharing the bed with a woman,

willingly

I assume you went to bed with her there and you wanted her there with you, not that you went to bed alone and there is this mystery woman there, or that you were drugged and find yourself handcuffed to the bed or something, or ended up being led by gun point by a woman to the bed, though feel free to steal these for a story...

, and she sees/feels your morning wood, do you take offense to her caressing it and getting excited over it? Or is that a good thing?

I don't hold it against any woman who wants to deal with my morning erection. If in doubt, I explain that things might be a little different than usual.