Late Satisfaction

[mcpa1597]

So writing fanfiction for one of my own stories?

Think of it as more of a… “what if?” type deal.

[Lucius]

It's enthralling to see an author going over their work in such detail.

And Late Satisfaction is in many ways designed to be the antithesis of Record Chaser. Where Record Chaser tells the story of a delicate girl getting kidnapped and raped by a physically much stronger serial rapist, Late Satisfaction features a tall, physically strong, and experienced martial artist as the victim, who freezes because she's confronted with institutional power and feels dependent on her rapist. The rapist is also the opposite, an up to this point innocent man, a 47 year old, respectable math professor who has never sexually harrassed a woman in his whole life.

Yeah, authorial intent comes through quite clearly.

I also like the contrast between Anthony's obsessive thoughts in part 1 and when you get to see Eleanor for real she turns out to be... just a girl. She doesn't even have any deeper thoughts regarding Anthony beyond "Nice math professor, explains stuff well! "

I think there's always something enthralling in situations where the stakes, physical or emotional or whatever, are wildly disproportional. Here we have the reverse of the (in)famous line from Street Fighter.

Well, if that was Street Fighter, here we get Elevator Fighter.

Fun fact: The name Anthony Robertson originates from Venus' Touch chapter 2 where Ryan reveals to Amelia that he expected a man named Anthony Robertson to be his customer instead of her. Turns out, Anthony canceled his appointment at Venus' Touch. Again, this was just me having fun creating connections between stories. But now that I think about... I most definitely need to include a chapter in Divergent Limit where Claire, Eleanor, and Emily go to Venus' Touch together.

Please do! It'll be a nice, uh, touch.

The one thing I'm still sceptical off to this day is the sequence in the chapter where I try to show the acceleration of the rape orthographically by shortening the moaned "Ahh"s and "Mhhm"s by removing one h and . at a time. That was again me trying something new. When I translated the story, I actually considered rewriting that passage into more conventional prose, but ultimately decided against it. Does that sequences work? I can't really tell.

I think the sequence works.

Given that at this point 23 people voted that they found the office rape scene hot and another 8 voted they found it hot and depressing at the same time, it doesn't seem to be a deal breaker. Btw, if you are one of the people voting "Both", please leave a comment. You are the person I'm writing this kind of story for, someone who revels like me in the hotness and the sadness of the scene at the same time.

Yeah, I voted Hotness outweighs depression for this reader.

Many authors make, in my view, the mistake of just chaining more and more rape scenes together, not understanding that the subsequent rapes have a hard time matching the sheer intensity of that initial violation. Even if you change the logistics of the subsequent rape scenes, like a change in position, number of people involved, switching from vaginal to anal sex, etc. - you are ultimately not adding meaning to what the initial rape already portrayed. A good rape fantasy story delivers not only a different kink for the next scene, but a different emotional experience, a change in meaning. And that's much harder to do.

Not sure it's that clear-cut, let's say the sudden transition from solo to gang adds a different emotional experience for the girl and everyone involved... Straw Dogs, anyone? Plus, the girl would experience her rape(s) very differently depending on whether she escapes or, let's say, she gets sold into sexual slavery.

What tempted me the most about option 1, though, was the idea to write a chapter where Eleanor spends a whole weekend at Anthony's house while his wife Marla is out of town. ...

But again, I found no way to make scenario 1 compelling as it inevitability would just end up becoming boring or devolve into a kink parade instead of a serious story.

There was room for more story, and I'm certain you could've handled it well, but I understand the choice.

Part 2 is the more important half of the chapter, though. At the time, it was the most ambitious thing I had ever written and I didn't know whether I could pull it off. I wanted to show a victim of sexual abuse crossing somebody else's boundary and have the reader understand why she does it. And I wanted to portray a man here as the victim of a woman. Both are difficult because, first, the common perception of victims is them being morally pure, sad, and inactive after trauma. Second, sexual abuse against men is still often downplayed or even played for laughs. So I needed to write this chapter in a way that the reader understands why Eleanor does what she does and that they even perceive what she does as a boundary violation.

I missed some of it when catching up with the story, I think my general impression was 'Oh, Eleanor wants to have the rape overwritten, not gonna work... Oh it so doesn't work...'

The psychological mechanism behind Eleanor's behavior was this: Eleanor was raped, but can't admit to herself that she was raped. Why? Because freezing when a physically weaker man assaults her is not compatible with her identity as a capable fighter who knows how to defend herself. So she reinterprets the events into a trade: sex for help. She doesn't like this either of course, but in this made up story she at least made a choice. And it explains perfectly why she didn't enjoy the sex. Why would she? Pleasure was never the goal in the trade she made up in her mind.

That is her initial belief at the beginning of the chapter. This belief also explains why she doesn't tell her father or Eugene what happened. Telling your father you were raped is difficult, but you would expect him to support you. Telling your father you had sex for money, a job, a scholarship, whatever, and now feel bad about it? Good luck trying that. So as long as Eleanor believes her own made up story, telling somebody else what happened is incredibly difficult.

When she finally talks to Eugene, she experiences his careful touch as soothing, healing even. She wants him to overwrite the bad memories with his better touch. Of course, if Eugene had agreed to that, it most likely would have gone catastrophically wrong. But in the moment, this is what she feels.

She wanted to feel his loving touch, and in exchange he got to sleep with her. After everything she had learned about herself today, this was who she was: someone who traded sex for benefits.

You really don't want the character to feel and think what she does here.

That was the idea I had for the chapter and I had never before tried to portray something so psychologically ambitious and intricate as this. It took me a long time to write this. I was stuck for weeks on that chapter. But I think that in the end the chapter turned out very well. To this day, I consider chapter 3 part 2 to be some of my best writing. And I think it is a bit overlooked in our community because the chapter features no explicit sex scene. But writing that chapter successfully was what changed my writing for the better long term. Without this chapter, Record Chaser chapter 6 and all the later chapters would probably have looked drastically different.

Damn right it's been overlooked, myself included. But it is really good.

I think the structure of the scene works tremendously well and makes it stand out among rape fantasy scenes. I guess some will dislike a triumphant victim, but the natural progression of the story demands it. And I will always prioritize storytelling over catering to a specific kink.

Yeah, the floors device works well enough for its formalism not to stick out. Eleanor prevailing might dampen the ardour of some readers, but she deserves it.

Usually this phrase is used here in a different context.

Part 1 is the end of Anthony's pov. I wanted him to show some regret, but please note how Eleanor's suffering is still secondary in his mind. His regret concerns mostly the consequences for himself and his wife. I thought this was a nice way to preserve his complexity as a person to the end.

Quite in-character, too.

I knew from the start that Eleanor's apology would have to come first. I wanted the scene under no circumstances to come across as "Eugene forgives her because a bad thing happened to her. That makes what she did less bad." Eleanor understands that she can't use her own trauma to pressure Eugene into forgiving her. So Eleanor takes full accountability for her actions and only shares what happened after Eugene forgave her.

Good for her. You could do it the other way to mess with their minds some more, but I suppose they've had enough.

The story doesn't end on going to the police or lawyers or Robertson ending up in peison because that would be boring.

... and externalize the conflict whereas the story is about the inner life of Eleanor (and, well, same holds true for Robertson). Actually it's a good portrayal of the situation where the contest is more mental than physical. His calling her Ms. Price in her mind is as much a part of her victory as the kicking-in-the-elevator part. Perhaps Robertson sees Ms. Price in his nightmares now.

The story ends with Eleanoer taking back control over her own life and finally asking the people she loves for help. In the beginning, she had just ruptured the relationship with her mother and kept that a secret from her father. She went to a stranger instead of friends or family to ask for help. In the final chapter, she first asks her father to help with her mother, then confronts her mother, and finally asks Eugene for his support, admitting that she can't do this alone. And of course, Eugene being the best boy, promises to help. To me, that ending fits thematically.

Not going to be easy, but that's for Divergent Limit.

[Claire]

Yeah, authorial intent comes through quite clearly.

I guess only if you are familiar with Record Chaser as well.

I think there's always something enthralling in situations where the stakes, physical or emotional or whatever, are wildly disproportional. Here we have the reverse of the (in)famous line from Street Fighter.

I actually don't remember that scene from the movie, even though I think I saw it as a child with my older brother. That's a good line! Maybe I need to rewatch the film as an adult to fully "appreciate" it.

Please do! It'll be a nice, uh, touch.

I have to figure out what purpose that visit would serve in the story.

I think the sequence works.

Thanks, that's nice to hear. Readers usually don't comment on it on their own, so it probably stands out less than I think.

Yeah, I voted

Good boy. Here, have a peach:

Not sure it's that clear-cut, let's say the sudden transition from solo to gang adds a different emotional experience for the girl and everyone involved... Straw Dogs, anyone? Plus, the girl would experience her rape(s) very differently depending on whether she escapes or, let's say, she gets sold into sexual slavery.

You're actually confirming my point. In your examples, you're adding meaning, you're not just changing positions. Think of Record Chaser chapter 8 for example. The spanking is a new element and obviously delivers on a new kink. But it serves a purpose that goes beyond just moving to a different kink. The spanking is a tool in the battle that Mark and Claire are fighting over the last bastion Claire has been able to hold on to: not getting kissed by him. It's not "And then he spanked her" but "And then he spanked her in an attempt to psychologically break her so that she would let him kiss her without biting him". That is what I mean. There is a qualitative difference in meaning compared to what came before associated with the new element introduced.

There was room for more story, and I'm certain you could've handled it well, but I understand the choice.

I think if I would extend the story in retrospect, I'd probably add to the opening chapter, not the later ones. Back then I was still thinking I needed to get the rape quickly or I would lose the reader. Today I would care less about that.

Damn right it's been overlooked, myself included. But it is really good.

Good for her. You could do it the other way to mess with their minds some more, but I suppose they've had enough.

Hmm, maybe. I think that could work if this wasn't final chapter. Then Eleanor trying to use her own abuse as an excuse could be part of her character arc. But I think in the final chapter that is supposed to conclude her positive character arc that simply wouldn't work. The story simply wouldn't have any more time to do anything with that. In general though, I could see a character using their own trauma as an excuse for shitty behavior of their own as an interesting character flaw to explore in a story.

Not going to be easy, but that's for Divergent Limit.

Indeed.

[sinfulwords]

@Claire
So here’s how my comment works LMAO as u can see it’s long AFFF! What I did was, as I read, I jotted down all my thoughts and impressions to give u a look at how I experienced your novella in real time.

I do not expect u to reply to all my bullet points, this is more a gift to you to read for your own enjoyment….although I do pose questions here and there so if you wouldn’t mind answering them at your convenience I’d be SOOOO grateful!

Chapter 1 part 1

He had also noticed how he felt captivated by her from the moment he first laid eyes on her. Even her tiniest gestures aroused him to no end. The way she tucked her hair behind her ears. How she briefly grabbed her nose when she was unsure how to precisely phrase her question. How she used her pinky instead of her index finger to point toward a spot in her notes marked with a question mark.

I liked Professor Robertson was so observant. How he noticed all the minutia of Eleanor’s character. it really emphasized how much he watches her.

The push and pull in Anthony’s mind was really well executed. Bro was playing a game of tug of war with his libido and his good sense I liked how I could literally feel the resistance of desire through your descriptions.

Anthony should probably ask for Eleanor to be transferred to a different class…although I sincerely hope he doesn’t do such a practical thing.


Chapter 1 part 2

I like how the parts are separated by POV. I’m sure it’ll give a more well rounded picture of each character. This is how the VAST majority of dark romance novels are presented and it usually gives such wonderful insight into both leading characters.

EUGENE mentioned

CLAIRE MENTIONED

I liked how u portrayed Eleanor’s cluelessness as a freshman by way of over-dressing herself for the meeting. It was a nice touch that simultaneously revealed how important Professor Robertsons support was for her.

I’m VERY curious to learn more about what’s so bad about Eleanor’s mom Suppose I’ll just have to keep reading to find out ^.^ I’m sure you wouldn’t have emphasized it so much if it wasn’t a defining aspect of Eleanor’s character

Chapter 2 part 1 & 2

CLAIRE SPOTTED

It’s very cool to see how much detail u put into the characterizations. The two leads really pop! They’re so alive

Love that Eleanor’s mom is Miranda Priestly coded “that’s all” (hopefully you’ve seen The Devil Wears Prada ). So now I have a better picture of why she and her mama don’t get along.

Anthony KNEW Eleanor’s mom and wanted her too!?!? bro is just a simp two generations over

At this point in the story it’s so hard to imagine Professor Robertson as a rapist! Cause that’s who I’m assuming is going to be ravishing Eleanor, as you’ve detailed how he desires her so much. It’s so clearly accentuated I’ll be shook if some rando pops out the trees and takes all the “glory”

My mind is going to a possible extortion maybe the professor will help Eleanor with her financial woes if she “helps” him

Soon, this conversation would be over without leaving his life in ruins as the next prominent MeToo case.

Not the Me Too case

Then she felt it, his palm on her cheek and his fingers on her neck. Her eyes shot up abruptly to look for an explanation in his face but it was too late. Before she could even try to read the expression on his face, he had come so close that she felt his lips on hers.

OH MY GOD! I was not expecting him to pounce like that and not me just thinking “I cAnT iMAgInE ProFessOr RobErtSon rApIng hEr.” Boy did I not give him enough credit

Okay the schizophrenic mom voice was wild work that was a DEVIOUS stylistic choice in the middle of a rape. But it really sank that scene deeper into the quicksand of depravity than I’d ever thought possible kudos for that idea alone!!! no wonder Eleanor can’t stand her mom if she can imagine her saying things like that she must be a nasty woman…I’d show that bitch a thing or two if she ever blamed that shit on Eleanor

Chapter 3 part 1

HE DOESN’T DESERVE MARLA she’s so kind and she really loves him! It just makes me so sad to learn of her troubles with infertility, and how it tanked their sex life. You conveyed really well how touch-starved she was, so, it’s so hard knowing that Anthony’s newfound libido isn’t even FOR her, it’s for a student he raped. I shall reiterate: HE DOESN’T DESERVE HER

But she was honestly surprised that her gentle husband was even capable of such intense, demanding, and borderline violent sex. She couldn’t remember when she last felt so desirable.

where is Anthony? I just wanna talk to him for a second

the nose thing is too cute!!! HE DOESN’T DESERVE HER

Eleanor had granted him that wish. Through her, he found a late satisfaction, finally gaining what her mother had denied him.

Title spotted

She was too good for him. He didn’t deserve her.

Mmmhmmm child I been saying it! even professor Rapist agrees

His wife’s trust in him was unshakeable. If she had asked him to stop, he would have done so immediately… of course… probably...

Uh-oh someone’s getting a taste for raping I’m getting Walter White vibes from him at this point. A sweet teacher type that slowly turns into an insatiable monster only instead of meth it’s rape

…….HE DOESN’T DESERVE HER…….

Chapter 3 part 2

Eleanor’s dad is SO endearing I love that he’s just a lovable simple sort of guy. The following two quotes are what really cemented my affection for him even tho we only got to meet him through one short phone call

“Oh, that must be it. Is Eugene there, too? Hey Eugene!”

STOP! So effing adorable!! all saying hi to Eugene and what not!

Only recently did she realize that the dominant aura her mother exuded simply had no effect on her father. Not because he was able to resist it better than other people. He just didn’t notice it in the first place.

So charmingly obtuse I love him!!

She couldn’t hear the song directly, but Eugene’s butchered American cover version was enough for her to recognize it

So what made u decide to make the universe of this story take place in America versus Germany where you’re from? I’m just curious ….did all our liberty seduce u jkjkjk but really? Why the states? cause I actually caught you mentioning Claire and Thanksgiving break in Record Chaser so I’m assuming the setting is America versus Eugene simply being an American inserted somewhere else

I like we get a glimpse of Eugene as a character in Late Satisfaction too. He, like all your characters, is very vivid. I can see he’s a fierce friend with an extremely gentle and giving soul—it’s no wonder Claire liked him. Shit I like him too

So the raped becomes the rapist VERY interesting I’m curious what prompted you to steer Eleanor in that direction? I understand that she wanted his gentleness to cleanse the violation and take control back over her body, but what was your motivation for making Eleanor do that as the writer?

NOT THE BASKETBALL COACH poor Eugene I guess he and Claire really are a match made in heaven (or perhaps hell given the subject manner of their similarities).

Sheesh this math department sounds cursed with sexual assault remind me to never study math wherever these peeps go…not like I’d ever study math, but even so. They CURSED af

Chapter four part 1

Well well well look who’s surrendering sooo quickly to the beast within Professor Rapist’s conscience never had a fighting chance

I liked this line that really drove home how his good sense was fading:

But whatever scruples he still had, they had long since been reduced to shy observers of his depraved thoughts

I just really loved the whole vibe of the sweet professor succumbing to his debased desire! A lot of great descriptions in there!

Another highlight of his slipping self restraint that I liked a lot:

He had accepted that he was capable of abusing one of his students and that he’d do it again. If that was inevitable, logic then dictated that he should derive the maximum amount of pleasure from raping her again.

Sincerely tho, his fantasies are HOT the shaky signature followed by the immediate ass fucking; his hand pressed over her mouth; the elevator!!

Ooop he’s writing an email to Eleanor I do wonder how she’ll react

Chapter four part 2

You did an excellent job conveying Eleanor’s strife. The details of her thoughts ping-ponging between her recent trauma and the trauma she caused Eugene; her guilt; the insomnia; concealing the results of her insomnia with makeup; dodging questions and dreading pleasantries. It was all very well executed with a couple of snippets of subtle figurative language that I liked a lot such as

Eleanor flinching like a beaten, frightened dog at the gentle touch startled Ashley in return. She turned her head and forced a smile.

An answer that wasn’t a lie, but also did nothing more than poke at the truth with a long stick from a distance.

I believe I have identified the unique factor in this part that u mentioned in our dm correspondence you’re using the elevator floors as stepping stones to display the forward motion of the rape scene i found it complimented the high stakes of this particular scene. The sectioned pace moves things along quicker and I think it helped emphasize Anthony’s urgency and the chaos of Eleanor’s experience

The girl in the mirror looked passive, lifeless. Every thrust pushed her body a little up the wall, only for her to sink back down when he pulled back. When he began to kiss the girl’s neck, she couldn’t help but be reminded of a praying mantis holding and devouring a smaller insect. The girl was her, she realized. She felt insignificant.

My Shayla!!!! No idk why but the fact we know Eleanor is capable of fighting back but isn’t makes her pacification hit soooo much harder! Did u intentionally give her character the hobby of kickboxing to REALLY accentuate the willingness of her surrender in light of securing financial aid to pay for school? she really seems to wanna study math (for reasons unknown to me )

She detested the taste of his tongue. He was now not only raping her vagina, but her mouth as well.

I love coming inside you, Victoria!”

So this MF is obsessed with her mom! The whole time it wasn’t about Eleanor he was subconsciously (and now quite consciously) using her to balm his long-since-passed unrequited love Anthony’s the most dangerous kind of simp! I see why the title of the novella is ‘late satisfaction’. It’s very clear now that this has been Professor rapist’s motivation all along

She dropped low like she had practiced thousands of times, and rammed her powerful fist into his solar plexus without even a hint of restraint.

Mmmhmmm! That’s right Eleanor, merk that sweater-vest-wearing-math-geek ahh bitch I been waiting for her to fuck him up!

There he was, cowering, wheezing, coughing, spraying his sperm uncontrollably in the elevator. A sweaty, middle-aged man struggling to regain his composure while his body refused to obey him….He was a pathetic sight. Spilled coffee dripped off his shoes, his face was distorted from pain, and one hand clutched his small, aching belly. Finally, the sperm fountain died down until only small droplets kept trickling out of the softening penis. Why had she granted such a pathetic man so much power over her?

Wonderful description of the shift in power dynamics! Floor 12 and 13 were soooo satisfying of course the rapes were hot and Eleanor’s surrender really enhanced that allure but her taking her power back and seeing Anthony’s deflate was JUST as good

Chapter 5 part 1

I’m loving all the overthinking Anthony was doing, he’s a man after my own heart (minus the raping) it’s like “okay let me examine this thing from every angle and envision every worst case scenario possible”

He had put it all on the line - his job, his marriage, his reputation, his moral integrity, and also the well-being of Eleanor Price - for… elevator sex.

him and soooo many men before him

It seemed almost comically absurd. He couldn’t fathom how 20 minutes in his office and another minute in an elevator could upend his entire life like that. Was it fair for his entire life to be reduced to a single mistake?

he sounds like a judge doling out sentences for rape this is how so many of them seem to think.

Kinda wish we got to see that conversation between Anthony and Marla!! I wanna see his marriage rupture in real time alas! I’ll just have to use my imagination.

Another great villain. I thought mark seemed realistic but Anthony was FAR more so, to the point that it was almost as if u plucked him straight from some random university and plopped him into your rape fic. His banality and, dare I say, insipidness gave the character (and by extension the story) a very chilling realism that couldn’t be ignored. It’s said that the majority of rapes are perpetrated by people the victim knows. This character embodies that vile truth.

And then there was his more inconceivable quality: his obsession with Victoria. The coincidence that he’d ever cross paths with a past love’s daughter and feel an inherent attraction to her was unlikely, but that improbability cut the edges of the realism I associated with his character and gave him an entertaining level of depth that added to the overall captivation I felt as a reader.

Kudos on creating him

Chapter 5 part 2

It’s sweet that Eleanor’s first instinct was to talk to her dad I found her decision to not confide in him right away very complex I’m almost certain it’s gonna crush him when he learns Eleanor delayed confiding in him to spare HIM some type of feeling but I’m sure he’ll understand that she just needed to process

I’m glad he’s gonna talk to Victoria for her…it’s just ridiculous that someone as rich as her mom wouldn’t pay for school…even if she was studying something her mom didn’t approve of like the fuck? You’re loaded, just pay for it

speaking of the mom….

Victoria when Eleanor revealed why she was calling:

(again I hope you’ve seen the devil wears Prada!)

It sucks Eleanor isn’t a priority in her mom’s life. You conveyed how Eleanor was affected by that throughout the story, which acted as a nice trail of bread crumbs to Eleanor’s outburst.

It’s interesting to me tho, however, that Victoria was so moved by Eleanor’s outburst, because we know she fights and disagrees with her mother (especially about math ). So what made THIS display of gumption on Eleanor’s part seem so much different in Victoria’s eyes?

You conveyed that she was proud of her daughter for sticking up for herself, which ultimately moved her to comply with Eleanor’s inquiry, but what made this time so much different than when she stood up for herself about studying math or any of their arguments before?

Yes, I know Anthony. A sharp mind. But ultimately an unremarkable man who wasted his potential seeking the comfort of a tenured professorship, settling for mediocrity. He’s no one you should look up to.

Lmaooooooo this was my favorite line out of the mom!

I suppose now all Eleanor has to do is chat to Eugene….from what i understand of his character however I’m not too worried that there will be some mushy forgiveness on the horizon ‍

Chapter 5 part 3

I really like the setting of Eugene and Eleanor’s reconcile, to me it was like a metaphor to both characters’ healing. Not only the healing of their similar trauma but of their friendship. The fact that Eugene is practicing B-ball again is in fact a symbol of his healing while Eleanor’s healing is signified by her FINALLY confiding in someone about her trauma.

I’m interested why you chose basketball for Eugene’s sport? You seemed to describe the technique of a proper shot quite well (at least I thought so, I never really played ball) so I’m curious if u maybe played?

“….I sent her a text shortly after, but I haven’t heard back from her since”….. “Of course you do. You even asked how it went. I’m sorry I ignored your text.”

poor Eugene everyone be ignoring his texts. Mans is living life on read

“But I really could have just punched him! I know! Earlier today, he tried… again… and I, I did exactly that. It was so easy, Eugene! So easy… he ra… and I just let it happen…”

that’s the interesting thing about predetermined power dynamics. Anthony was the teacher, Eleanor the pupil, and what’s more he was in a position to give her a job she desperately needed. Every woman knows the feeling of letting different degrees of sexual harassment fly for the sake of self preservation or simply to avoid conflict and tension in various professional settings. At least I do but i assume it’s a universal female experience, so I think that Eleanor’s reaction, to just sort of bite the bullet and let it happen for the sake of self preservation (financial stability) read as very raw and realistic. Poor thing!!!! I’m so happy she has Eugene again

The determination radiating from her reddened eyes was contagious. Eugene wiped a tear off her cheek. His response was an equally determined nod.

so wholesome such a different ending to record chaser, which ended like a banner in tatters (Claire is the banner lol)!!! This one ended like two banners in tatters that are actively being sewn back together to eventually blow proudly in the wind

Dark endings are ofc more edgy and unconventional, but I’ve ALWAYS been a sucker for a happy ending and this one totally hit that sweet spot.

*satisfaction by the Rolling Stones begins playing softly*

110/10!!! I really enjoyed Late Satisfaction.

I think my favorite parts of your writing are your ideas themselves and your characterizations. You have a knack for building stories around concepts that I personally envy it seems like there are always layers to your story-telling where as my own work reads like a movie treatment, like my style is very much: this is what’s happening and this is what it looks like. While YOU on the other hand always seem to have deeper complexity to your character dynamics and overall themes. SUPER COOL! you should be proud of that talent

The characters you build are also very appealing to me as a reader. Similar to your themes they always have layers. You stray away from trite stereotypes in erotica and build relatable people that one can literally imagine walking right off the page. They make your work a pleasure to read. I love rooting for your protagonists just as much as a love hating your villains. And this, imo, is the mark of well-developed characters that play off each other in a captivating way!

Kudos my friend! Kudos for life

[Claire]

What I did was, as I read, I jotted down all my thoughts and impressions to give u a look at how I experienced your novella in real time.

Yes, summon your inner @Vela Nanashi!

I do not expect u to reply to all my bullet points, this is more a gift to you to read for your own enjoyment….although I do pose questions here and there so if you wouldn’t mind answering them at your convenience I’d be SOOOO grateful!

Don't worry about that. If you put that much effort into writing a comment, then better be prepared for me to answer the shit out of it.

Anthony should probably ask for Eleanor to be transferred to a different class…although I sincerely hope he doesn’t do such a practical thing.

Maybe we should write "What if?" versions of our stories where the characters do the reasonable thing and see how quickly the story would end.

I’m VERY curious to learn more about what’s so bad about Eleanor’s mom Suppose I’ll just have to keep reading to find out ^.^ I’m sure you wouldn’t have emphasized it so much if it wasn’t a defining aspect of Eleanor’s character

There is absolutely no foreshadowing in these early chapters! Nothing to see here! Please move along...

Love that Eleanor’s mom is Miranda Priestly coded “that’s all” (hopefully you’ve seen The Devil Wears Prada ). So now I have a better picture of why she and her mama don’t get along.

I was actually thinking of Claire Underwood from House of Cards (yes, another Claire...) as far as Victoria's personality is concerned. But I see the fashion connection you're drawing here. I think I watched The Devil wears Prada once but that was a while ago. Might have to give it a rewatch now that you mentioned it.

Anthony KNEW Eleanor’s mom and wanted her too!?!? bro is just a simp two generations over

I still love that twist!

Okay the schizophrenic mom voice was wild work that was a DEVIOUS stylistic choice in the middle of a rape. But it really sank that scene deeper into the quicksand of depravity than I’d ever thought possible kudos for that idea alone!!! no wonder Eleanor can’t stand her mom if she can imagine her saying things like that she must be a nasty woman…I’d show that bitch a thing or two if she ever blamed that shit on Eleanor

Thanks! I would distinguish here between Eleanor's pov of her mother in the middle of getting raped and who Victoria actually is. I like writing in third person limited because what you're told is not necessarily the truth but always filtered through a character's perception.

HE DOESN’T DESERVE MARLA she’s so kind and she really loves him! It just makes me so sad to learn of her troubles with infertility, and how it tanked their sex life. You conveyed really well how touch-starved she was, so, it’s so hard knowing that Anthony’s newfound libido isn’t even FOR her, it’s for a student he raped. I shall reiterate: HE DOESN’T DESERVE HER

I think all of us in the church of Marla can agree with that.

It was fun exploring her more as a character. When you portray a for the most part ordinary man as a rapist and not some psychopath loner, then the question of the fallout for other people in his life arises kind of naturally.

I’m getting Walter White vibes from him at this point. A sweet teacher type that slowly turns into an insatiable monster only instead of meth it’s rape

I never thought of comparison despite making the Better Call Saul reference in chapter 1. And fun fact: Just today while I was writing chapter 5 of Divergent Limit, I included a Breaking Bad reference in the chapter. And that chapter happens to deal with the fallout of Robertson's actions.

But you are absolutely right, the parallels are there.

Eleanor’s dad is SO endearing

I love him too! I still need a name for him as he will most certainly return in Divergent Limit. You can help me find one if you want to.

So what made u decide to make the universe of this story take place in America versus Germany where you’re from? I’m just curious ….did all our liberty seduce u jkjkjk but really? Why the states? cause I actually caught you mentioning Claire and Thanksgiving break in Record Chaser so I’m assuming the setting is America versus Eugene simply being an American inserted somewhere else

There is actually no deeper creative reason for that. When I decided to register on our predecessor forum RavishU, I was quite nervous. I'm not usually the type to register on adult websites. And when I registered not just on any adult website, but on a forum for rape fantasy stories, it was very important to me that I couldn't be identified. Partially because I was worried what people might think if they google me, but also because I assumed that a forum like this would also attract a few men who have little objections to real rape. So I was very cautious with what I reveal about myself.

For the first month that I was active on the forum, I didn't even post in the German sub board that existed on RavishU. I didn't want people to know that I was German. And even to this day, I don't think I've ever revealed to anyone in our community in which of the 16 German states I live in.

I guess that that might feel overly cautious to some, but yeah.

Anyway, so when I started writing Record Chaser, I just gave the characters typical American names as I was active on an English forum where most users seemed to come from the US. Claire is not a common German name, neither is Jason, Eugene, Anthony or Eleanor (Eleanor is such a pretty name. ). The only name that is also common in Germany in the exact same form is Mark.

And a second reason is of course that American media tends to dominate pop culture even outside of the US, at least in western countries. I basically don't watch German TV shows or film as, to be honest, most of them tend to be bad.

So writing stories in a vaguely American setting with characters that have typical American names was the easiest way to camouflage where I'm from. That's essentially it.

By the time I started writing Late Satisfaction in its original German version, I had already decided that I wanted to connect it to Record Chaser. So the setting was decided without me having to think much about it.

Probably a boring answer. I wish had some riveting creative reasons, but that's the truth.

So the raped becomes the rapist VERY interesting I’m curious what prompted you to steer Eleanor in that direction? I understand that she wanted his gentleness to cleanse the violation and take control back over her body, but what was your motivation for making Eleanor do that as the writer?

I deliberately avoid labeling Eleanor a rapist and I firmly believe she never would have gone that far if Eugene truly kept resisting. It's important for me to make a distinction here between groping another person and raping someone.

So why did I write her like this? I thinkthat there is a very Hollywood cliché kind of depiction of rape victims: blank stare, sad, dramatic shower, crying, fetal position. I'm not saying these things don't happen, but it's a bit reductive.

What I wanted to depict in chapter 3 part 2 were several thing:

1) Eleanor has trouble admitting to herself that was happened to her was rape. That is fairly common among survivors. But in Eleanor's case being a victim is also fundamentally incompatible with her identity. She is a fighter, she is tall, she is strong, she could have folded Robertson in half the entire time. That she just froze not because he was physically superior, but because of the institutional power he held and out of dependency, is not compatible with who she is. Before I repeat myself too much here, let me quote my author notes for this chapter:

Part 2 is the more important half of the chapter, though. At the time, it was the most ambitious thing I had ever written and I didn't know whether I could pull it off. I wanted to show a victim of sexual abuse crossing somebody else's boundary and have the reader understand why she does it. And I wanted to portray a man here as the victim of a woman. Both are difficult because, first, the common perception of victims is them being morally pure, sad, and inactive after trauma. Second, sexual abuse against men is still often downplayed or even played for laughs. So I needed to write this chapter in a way that the reader understands why Eleanor does what she does and that they even perceive what she does as a boundary violation.

The psychological mechanism behind Eleanor's behavior was this: Eleanor was raped, but can't admit to herself that she was raped. Why? Because freezing when a physically weaker man assaults her is not compatible with her identity as a capable fighter who knows how to defend herself. So she reinterprets the events into a trade: sex for help. She doesn't like this either of course, but in this made up story she at least made a choice. And it explains perfectly why she didn't enjoy the sex. Why would she? Pleasure was never the goal in the trade she made up in her mind.

That is her initial belief at the beginning of the chapter. This belief also explains why she doesn't tell her father or Eugene what happened. Telling your father you were raped is difficult, but you would expect him to support you. Telling your father you had sex for money, a job, a scholarship, whatever, and now feel bad about it? Good luck trying that. So as long as Eleanor believes her own made up story, telling somebody else what happened is incredibly difficult.

When she finally talks to Eugene, she experiences his careful touch as soothing, healing even. She wants him to overwrite the bad memories with his better touch. Of course, if Eugene had agreed to that, it most likely would have gone catastrophically wrong. But in the moment, this is what she feels.

She tries to sleep with Eugene not because she's horny, but because she wants him to touch her everywhere AND to reinforce her new identity. If she's someone who trades sex for what she wants, then why not with Eugene? The whole thing collapses when Eugene desn't want any of that. The more Eugene tries to slow things down, the more does Eleanor try to reinforce her new identity until she gropes him and crosses his boundary.

When Eugene finally tells her that he doesn't recognize her, he accidentally destroys her new made up identity and the truth of what happened begins to dawn on her.

That was the idea I had for the chapter and I had never before tried to portray something so psychologically ambitious and intricate as this. It took me a long time to write this. I was stuck for weeks on that chapter. But I think that in the end the chapter turned out very well. To this day, I consider chapter 3 part 2 to be some of my best writing. And I think it is a bit overlooked in our community because the chapter features no explicit sex scene. But writing that chapter successfully was what changed my writing for the better long term. Without this chapter, Record Chaser chapter 6 and all the later chapters would probably have looked drastically different.

So my motivation to write it like this ultimately comes down to... I found this to be a more interesting direction to take a victim character into rather than just depicting a sad, depressed character, or diving into a revenge fantasy. And another reason was to challenge myself.

If there is a moment in my writing 'career' that elevated my writing to the next level, at least in my view, it would be this chapter. Maybe you remember Record Chaser chapter 6, the chapter immediately after the first rape when Clair achieves her first mini victory over Mark and then everything slows down pacing wise as she slowly reclaims her own body. That chapter is heavily influenced by chapter 3 part 2 of Late Satisfaction. I might have fallen into the trap of trying to beat the intensity of chapter 5 of Record Chaser by escalating the abuse on a physical level. Instead, I slowed things down, rebuild the tension slowly, and leaned even more into the psychological aspect.

If I hadn't made the experience that I thought I could pull something as complex as chapter 3 part 2 off - and I realized that I could when I found myself crying like a baby as I got close to writing the climax of the chapter - my stories would look very different today. That was a turning point for me as a writer.

Sincerely tho, his fantasies are HOT the shaky signature

Chapter 4 part 1 is more like a transitional chapter, but the shaky signature is my favorite detail in that chapter. i think I like making things sexual that aren't inherently sexual. That gives a sex scene a uniue flavor that goes beyond your standard kink depictions. That's also one of the reasons why I enjoyed the inclusion of the jumping jacks in your story.

you’re using the elevator floors as stepping stones to display the forward motion of the rape scene i found it complimented the high stakes of this particular scene. The sectioned pace moves things along quicker and I think it helped emphasize Anthony’s urgency and the chaos of Eleanor’s experience

I talked in detail about the elevator scene and how it was constructed in the author notes, but I'll spare you the details. In general, I find it often helps a scene if there is some external device that tracks the progress of the scene. In Record Chaser you had a literal alarm clock ticking down to midnight, here it is an elevator ride that you know will end one way or another on the 13th floor. The reader automatically knows how far they have progressed through the scene.

If you read the author notes, you will see that about half of what happens during the elevator ride was pinned down by the floor by floor pov switching structure. And I think that structure also makes the scene extremely memorable for a reader.

Did u intentionally give her character the hobby of kickboxing to REALLY accentuate the willingness of her surrender in light of securing financial aid to pay for school? she really seems to wanna study math (for reasons unknown to me )

Short answer, yes. I don't have to tell you how often, when survivors come forward with what happened to them years after the fact, they get asked: "But why didn't you resist? And why didn't you say something sooner?" In Late Satisfaction I wanted to explore exactly that kind of scenario: a woman freezes because she initially likes (not sexually) the man who assaults her, there is a hierarchy, there is dependency, there is the fear no one would believe her, she is in a vulnerable position. And to hammer that point him, that this is not a case of "man physically overpowers woman" I made Eleanor physically formidable. I told you that the story more political. And that's the main aspect.

I would hope that somebody who didn't get it yet reads the rape scene in the office, reads what goes through Eleanor's mind, and maybe thinks: "Yeah ok, I get why she doesn't resist..."

I been waiting for her to fuck him up!

The story talked so much about Eleanor's strength, I couldn't end the story without her throwing a single punch. So her knocking him out was essentially Chekhov's Kickboxer. At some point, the story needed to deliver on the promise of Eleanor punching somebody.

Another great villain. I thought mark seemed realistic but Anthony was FAR more so, to the point that it was almost as if u plucked him straight from some random university and plopped him into your rape fic. His banality and, dare I say, insipidness gave the character (and by extension the story) a very chilling realism that couldn’t be ignored. It’s said that the majority of rapes are perpetrated by people the victim knows. This character embodies that vile truth.

High praise, thank you!

It's not just that Anthony knows her which is realistic. Another real aspect about rape that I wanted to capture is that most rapists are ordinary men. We tend to portray rapists in our stories as extreme characters, often as unfeeling psychopaths. But if rape was truly only committed by seriously deranged men, it wouldn't be such a common occurrence. And to me, that has always been the horror of rape. Rape, compared to murder for example, is ordinary. That's what makes it scary for me.

It’s interesting to me tho, however, that Victoria was so moved by Eleanor’s outburst, because we know she fights and disagrees with her mother (especially about math ). So what made THIS display of gumption on Eleanor’s part seem so much different in Victoria’s eyes?

So you see how earlier during the phone call, Eleanor tries very much not to step on her mother's toes. That is probably the more common way how she approaches her mother. Eleanor is perfectly capable of doing her own thing, but I imagine her dooing this normally out of a feeling of quiet resignation that her mother will never change. When Eleanor explodes here, she no longer tries to negotiate or appease her mother. And I imagine Victoria to think:

"That's it, Eleanor. My daughter doesn't let anybody just push her away like this, not even me."

At that point, in Victoria's eyes, Eleanor stops being a child asking for permission from her mother and becomes her equal.

If your curios, I shared more of my thoughts on Victoria and how Eleanor's pov might distort your perception of her here.

I’m interested why you chose basketball for Eugene’s sport? You seemed to describe the technique of a proper shot quite well (at least I thought so, I never really played ball) so I’m curious if u maybe played?

I have zero idea about how to play basketball. Part of my research for this story was reading tutorials and watching Youtube videos on how to throw a basketball correctly... Glad I was able to fool you into believing I knew what I was talking about.

There was no deeper reason why I chose basketball. i just thought "What sport is popular in the US that a 12 year old boy might dream of?" And correct me if I'm wrong, but basketball, baseball, and then American football and rugby are the biggest sports in the US, right? If the story was taking place in Germany, Eugene probably would have been into football.

When I first came up with the basketball background for Eugene, I had no idea that I would actually write a scene that involved characters making shots. A fatal mistake on my part which led to the aforementioned research I had to do.

Every woman knows the feeling of letting different degrees of sexual harassment fly for the sake of self preservation or simply to avoid conflict and tension in various professional settings. At least I do but i assume it’s a universal female experience, so I think that Eleanor’s reaction, to just sort of bite the bullet and let it happen for the sake of self preservation (financial stability) read as very raw and realistic.

I don't know about every woman, but I don't think I've met one yet who hasn't made that experience in some point in her life. :/

I’m so happy she has Eugene again

Me too! Eugene is the best boy!

I think my favorite parts of your writing are your ideas themselves and your characterizations. You have a knack for building stories around concepts that I personally envy it seems like there are always layers to your story-telling where as my own work reads like a movie treatment, like my style is very much: this is what’s happening and this is what it looks like. While YOU on the other hand always seem to have deeper complexity to your character dynamics and overall themes. SUPER COOL! you should be proud of that talent

I appreciate the praise but I think you're selling yourself short here. And I'm not just saying that to come across as humble.

I told you how chapter 3 part 2 was a turning point in my writing. And I think in our niche, or maybe in erotica writing in general, we tend to believe that we need to feed the reader quickly with spicy sex scenes. But the truth is that the stories doing that are already out there a dime a dozen. So I dare you to try your hand at that more thematic writing where sex scenes become more than titillation.

I'm not going to lie. That will also cost you some (short term) attention and it's not a good strategy if you want to win contests here in the future. But in my experience, stories like that have more staying power over instant gratification machines that deliver straight forward sex/rape instantly. And I'm sure that you can write something like that. You have clearly thought about what you're writing beyomd the simple "Uhh, that makes my body tingle in the right places" and you are already doing a lot of character work in your current story. If you add narrative tension and theme to that, you are already there.

So ask yourself: What is an idea linked to sexuality/sexual assault that you are interested in? I wanted to explore the role of institutional power, hierarchy and dependency in a Me Too like scenario in Late Satisfaction. In Divergent Limit I want to explore what healing after trauma looks like. What aspect would you like to go deeper into? Think about that, and then write your own chapter 3 part 2. And forget that the reader might need the next sex scene instantly. Late Satisfaction has plenty of readers, here and on AO3, despite having only 2 major rape scenes in an 11 part, 30,000 words long story.


Thank you again for your very detailed feedback. I enjoyed that a lot. I hope I didn't overlook any of your questions. Feel free to ask me more questions any time. I really enjoy comments that go into the how and why of a story.

[sinfulwords]

@Claire
Hey bestie! Thanks for getting back to me on all my queries and giving me feedback on my feedback; our reciprocal circle of appreciations continues ^.^

I’m so stoked you enjoyed the play by play comment and I’m grateful u took the time to reply to more than just my questions! I liked reading your reactions to my reactions

I’m gonna reply to this in more detail in the next few days as I construct my thoughts in regard to some of the more in depth faucets of our discussion stay tuned

[BlueRaven]

Certainly would be Fun. I like those Characters you created here and would read any Story where they appear.

[sinfulwords]

@Claire

Don't worry about that. If you put that much effort into writing a comment, then better be prepared for me to answer the shit out of it.

Yuuussss fam u the real one

I was actually thinking of Claire Underwood from House of Cards (yes, another Claire...) as far as Victoria's personality is concerned. But I see the fashion connection you're drawing here. I think I watched The Devil wears Prada once but that was a while ago. Might have to give it a rewatch now that you mentioned it.

I’ve never seen house of cards actually but I am aware that it is the very first Netflix original and is known for its exceptional story structure! And yes!!! Rewatch Devil Wears Prada! It’s sooooo good (if u like light hearted early aughts films) and Miranda Priestly is JUST like Victoria: a high fashion dragon boss with an absolutely no-nonsense work ethic and demeanor!

I love him too!
I still need a name for him as he will most certainly return in Divergent Limit. You can help me find one if you want to.

I would be honored to help in this regard a few that jump to mind are: Mickey, Ben, and Sam

Probably a boring answer. I wish had some riveting creative reasons, but that's the truth.

I think anonymity is as good a reason as any and I agree if America is good at anything it’s starting wars and making good tv and movies

I deliberately avoid labeling Eleanor a rapist and I firmly believe she never would have gone that far if Eugene truly kept resisting. It's important for me to make a distinction here between groping another person and raping someone.

I was just being silly, I genuinely don’t see Eleanor as a rapist. I have a hard time being serious sometimes especially when I’m excited (like when I’m reading good stories )

Eleanor has trouble admitting to herself that was happened to her was rape. That is fairly common among survivors. But in Eleanor's case being a victim is also fundamentally incompatible with her identity. She is a fighter, she is tall, she is strong, she could have folded Robertson in half the entire time. That she just froze not because he was physically superior, but because of the institutional power he held and out of dependency, is not compatible with who she is.

very interesting. I didn’t actually properly absorb that she REFUSED to see herself as a victim….although now that I’m thinking about it I do remember a scene where’s she’s literally contemplating whether what Anthony did to her was rape or not (seeing as she had the capacity to stop him) very complex, your Eleanor is. I remember thinking “c’mon girl u know that shit was assault”

I found this to be a more interesting direction to take a victim character into rather than just depicting a sad, depressed character, or diving into a revenge fantasy. And another reason was to challenge myself.

I agree, and you executed it well! Like, your characters being multidimensional and the fact u stray away from trite stereotypes is one of the reasons I find ur work so alluring

In Late Satisfaction I wanted to explore exactly that kind of scenario: a woman freezes because she initially likes (not sexually) the man who assaults her, there is a hierarchy, there is dependency, there is the fear no one would believe her, she is in a vulnerable position. And to hammer that point him, that this is not a case of "man physically overpowers woman" I made Eleanor physically formidable. I told you that the story more political.

oooo alright I see the politics: the literal politics of why women don’t come forward or openly resist as well as the exploration of the dynamics within institutional power structures. Quite based Claire, quite based

Another real aspect about rape that I wanted to capture is that most rapists are ordinary men. We tend to portray rapists in our stories as extreme characters, often as unfeeling psychopaths. But if rape was truly only committed by seriously deranged men, it wouldn't be such a common occurrence.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but basketball, baseball, and then American football and rugby are the biggest sports in the US, right?

just basket ball, baseball, and American football. Only rich kids play rugby …cause the former three are the only ones public schools get funding for …sometimes they don’t even have those

So ask yourself: What is an idea linked to sexuality/sexual assault that you are interested in?

I suppose I actually did that a bit in my current story where I explored the different dynamics between dom/sub relationships…but there was a whole bunch of “what makes my body tingle” that steered my writing too so even in my FF I was more into story structure and characterizations than underlying themes. I mean I HAVE themes they’re just sort of vapid and subtle ig…your themes just seem so much more prevalent and complex like in ur work I pick them up soooooo well even tho they’re not blatantly specified. I’d be surprised if anyone picked up on my dom/sub thingy in Love of My Chains

Thank you again for your very detailed feedback. I enjoyed that a lot. I hope I didn't overlook any of your questions. Feel free to ask me more questions any time. I really enjoy comments that go into the how and why of a story

of course! Thank u for ur story and ur response Like I’ve said (and I’m sure you’ve recognized) I enjoy prattling about other people’s work. I’m gonna make it a point to hop on the Divergent Limit train sometime soon too, so I’ll be popping up there as well

[Claire]

a few that jump to mind are: Mickey, Ben, and Sam

I like Sam a lot. I feel like if I name her father Ben, Eleanor might be one tragedy away from becoming Spiderwoman...

very interesting. I didn’t actually properly absorb that she REFUSED to see herself as a victim

It is more of a subconscious thing. She never thinks that explicitly. But yes, that is the whole point of chapter 3 part 2 in terms of narrative progression. Eleanor goes from "I traded sex for help." to "I was raped" which is an essential step in her ultimately fighting back. Generally speaking, if you're telling a story, asking yourself what changed from the beginning of a chapter toward the end of a chapter is important. If the events of the chapter don't change who the characters are or what they believe, then most likely the chapter is just "stuff happens" instead of narrative progression.

your themes just seem so much more prevalent and complex like in ur work I pick them up soooooo well even tho they’re not blatantly specified. I’d be surprised if anyone picked up on my dom/sub thingy in Love of My Chains

Let's talk about that more once you posted the epilogue.

I’m gonna make it a point to hop on the Divergent Limit train sometime soon too

Just a fair warning. DL is not a noncon story and is my first attempt at writing a full novel about healing after trauma. The sexual content is not the focus and if it appears it's more about reclaiming consensual sex after rape. So come for the characters, not the noncon if you want to read it.

That being said, I would love to have you as a regular commentator on DL. I just posted chapter 5 which is the end of the setup phase of the story. Hearing your thoughts chapter by chapter as I keep releasing them would be amazing. there is a lot more to come for Divergent Limit. I suspect that story to comfortably above 100,000 words at the end. and since all of that takes place in the US at as US college, I wouldn't mind using you as a source occasionally if I need to get some details right.

[sinfulwords]

I feel like if I name her father Ben, Eleanor might be one tragedy away from becoming Spiderwoman...

with great power comes great responsibility Eleanor

If the events of the chapter don't change who the characters are or what they believe, then most likely the chapter is just "stuff happens" instead of narrative progression.

filler episodes they call them when stuff doesn’t progress

Let's talk about that more once you posted the epilogue.

okay!!

So come for the characters, not the noncon if you want to read it.

I shall keep that in mind

I suspect that story to comfortably above 100,000 words at the end. and since all of that takes place in the US at as US college, I wouldn't mind using you as a source occasionally if I need to get some details right.

I’d be honored to be your source but keep in mind I never went to a proper college. I went to community college and did a vocational trades program so I might not know all the minutia surrounding college life and culture. BUT I’ll do my best feel free to dm me for fact checks anytime