Using AI in writing

[Shocker]

@Trio you started this discussion here, after as you were receiving flak. Did you expect nobody would offer a contrary opinion?

[Vela Nanashi]

I personally would actually like to see the process you use, maybe we can learn something. Like as an experiment show us your raw story as you wrote it and then the iteration steps and what you tell the AI to refine it until it becomes a story you would normally be comfortable publishing. I would love to see that and we could all learn from you on how you do that, and maybe seeing the process would also help calm some who don't like AI.

For me I think AI is a fun toy, sometimes it can be quite fun and interesting, but for instance I would never trust AI for writing code, I am very peculiar about how I want code to look that I am responsible for, sure maybe AI can be a good way to look up reference materials, but it has utterly failed me there too, so at best I take what AI says as a possible hint, and then I have to go find sources for what it said to make sure that makes sense.

Still I would really love to see the step by step process. I have a story I wrote and then experimented with the AI 'improving' I think I will post the various versions the AI made from my story at some point for the fun of it. Oh and I convinced the AI it was okay for it to rewrite what I wrote, since I was the one that made all the forbidden things happen in my story, and all it was doing was processing what I made, and helping analyze it and it was quite happy to go into graphic detail about stuff, I guess I accidentally jailbroke the AI or something

I also don't mind if people use AI as long as they are open about having done so, I also would like to learn how they use the AI so maybe I can have more use of it myself, though the way I write sounds like it is very different from how you write, I sink into a point of view character and then write as much as I can of what they sense, think, say, feel etc, it is really almost like cheating the way my brain works for that, but I can't actually plan things or edit things particularly well

Anyway please show us and teach us your process. I could try to teach you mine, but it just involves basically notepad++ or kate (plain text editors with spell check) and writing what I observe in my head really no technique or process at all, and stone age tools basically

[trio]

No, I like opinions and discussions, but these are not discussions. These are statements made without understanding the true context. I know this is the norm now in anonymous fora. Would you do it this way when we would be face to face, or would you ask me a question? I love to hear your opinion, especially if it contrary to mine. I can only learn from it. But I am not here to teach discourse.

We all have opinions, including the aforementioned flat-earthers. But when those opinions become camouflaged accusations, they stop being harmless. Like with violating copyright law. I know that in most countries, they have not adopted their laws in regards to AI, not well anyway. I know that the lobby behind the AI industry is working hard to influence them. Or when I state I run my stories through an AI engine, make them automatically AI Generated. You have no clue on the state of the source before I used the tool, but you are happy to reach a conclusion without asking. I have noticed that AI has been build with these human flaws built into its core.

But let's stop this, it will go nowhere. I probably was naive again as I was just hoping to get some open discussion on how to use these kind of tools in the future as this bloody thing is here to stay and I am sure you have read much more AI Generated content that you think you have.

But in this case, the mistake was mine.

@Trio you started this discussion here, after as you were receiving flak. Did you expect nobody would offer a contrary opinion?

[Blue]

I don't care at all how AI works or whether it can be trained or not.
I haven't had a single word of my published stories reviewed by AI yet.
I write my stories as they come into my head. Sometimes they're good stories, but sometimes they're stories that are quickly forgotten.
I don't value perfectionism. Either the reader likes my story the way I wrote it, and then everything's fine.
Or they don't, and then I'm happy to accept criticism. But I won't use AI in my writing...

[trio]

I personally would actually like to see the process you use, maybe we can learn something ...

Well the one thing I don't have is a process (I know even that is a process ). I have been told that my mind works different than most. I look at a problem and then try to analyse my way towards the solution. This has frustrated many on my path, but I am happy to give you an example of what happened earlier this week.

On the story about the Sheik I had a lot of notes. Scenes that were written out in much detail, but there was not a lot that tied the story together. I have written a lot in the past about him and his slave Blossom. A story that had grown over so many years.

I removed all the things that would trip the filters and started to feed it to the conversational AI. And I asked to give me options on how the pieces could fit together. It did it poorly, but I started to get some structure out of it. It read things back to me, I had forgotten I had even written. It helped me to bring the story into a certain flow. The nice thing about AI is that you can experiment with your own work. Play what ifs, trying to figure out where there are gaps and contradictions (not that it finds all of them, or does not create a lot completely on its own).

The output is something of a nightmare, but then it goes back to a simple word processor. Reading, changing, adding stuff ... and then rinse and repeat. I have to clearly state that it is not allowed to change my writing at this point, else you get something that seems to be written by someone else. The output is a badly (I think it is bad, as I don't like my own words on paper) written, but in my mind a complete story.

Then I use one of the many story telling generators out there as most have no filters. There are tons of them, I haven't found on I really like. But I hold them back. They are designed to write you a story based on a few lines you give them, you can edit the output and let it build further, but these stories are a mess and go all over the place. I normally have a clear summary in mind that I write as the input of the story, and then in the editor I start to copy in line per line of the original text and let it go over it. I would like one that could take it whole and give me suggestions on what to change, but I haven't found one, non I can afford. A friend of mine told me their company uses one that is very good, but I forgot its name (and I can find it right now).

This takes ages and is frustrating like hell as the system often does not do what I expect it to do. But when it does work, it gives me the output that I am looking for. It gives me back my writing, but better. Most of it is retained, but just some tweaks make it better. The only problem is verb tenses, it flips and flops all over the place and sometimes I don't catch it.

When I have this version, I take it back to the word processor and do my editing of the story. Most of the time it is deleting a lot of stuff and making sentences shorter. And then I go over the story again and again. Making small adjustments.

AI in this case helped me to bring the story together. Others have grown in different ways. AI for me is a tool, like my 3D printer, it can help me refine my work, bring things that are in pieces together and bring my imagination and my writing into a story I can be proud about.

Luckily I am going to start a new project soon, so my focus is going to shift on something else.

[trio]

Good for you and I like how you write. I do it differently.

I don't care at all how AI works or whether it can be trained or not.
I haven't had a single word of my published stories reviewed by AI yet.
I write my stories as they come into my head. Sometimes they're good stories, but sometimes they're stories that are quickly forgotten.
I don't value perfectionism. Either the reader likes my story the way I wrote it, and then everything's fine.
Or they don't, and then I'm happy to accept criticism. But I won't use AI in my writing...

[Vela Nanashi]

To me that sounds like a lot of work to get a story made with the help of the AI, but thank you for sharing your process trio I think we writers should share with each other the techniques we use, to help better each other or at least give ideas to each other on how to maybe do things

You sound like you enjoy editing things and you are good at that side of things, that is cool

[RapeU]

Here is a totally AI generated story where I told the AI the three themes for a story contest and let it run loose to see what happened out of curiosity.

As the star player of the women’s soccer team, Sarah was used to being the center of attention. But when a new player, Tom, joined the team, everything changed. Tom was tall, muscular, and handsome, but he was also underrated, overlooked by the coach and the other players. Despite this, Sarah couldn’t help but be drawn to him. One night, after practice, Sarah found herself alone with Tom in the locker room. He cornered her, his eyes glinting with desire. Sarah tried to resist, but she couldn’t deny the attraction she felt towards him.

Sarah found herself always seeking out Tom’s presence, and when they were alone, she would often find herself fantasizing about him taking control. She knew it was wrong, but the thought of being dominated by him was intoxicating. One day, Sarah’s fantasy became a reality when Tom cornered her in the locker room after practice. Sarah knew she should push him away, but instead, she found herself melting into his embrace.

One day, Sarah’s fantasy became a reality. During a private practice session, Tom took advantage of a moment of weakness and overpowered her. He forced her to submit to him, and as much as she tried to resist, she couldn’t help but be filled with desire. Sarah was shocked by her own reaction, but she couldn’t deny the pleasure she felt from being dominated by Tom. From then on, she found herself constantly seeking out his dominance, and Tom was happy to oblige.

Sarah found herself unable to resist Tom’s control. He made her do things she never thought she would do, and she found herself craving more. She knew it was wrong, but she couldn’t help herself. She was filled with a deep, primal desire for him. As the days went on, Sarah’s forced fantasies with Tom became more and more intense. She couldn’t get enough of him, and she was willing to do whatever it took to satisfy her cravings. She was fully under his control and he was filling her every need.

As the days went on, Sarah’s desire for Tom only grew stronger. She knew she had to have him, no matter the cost. She made the decision to submit to him fully, and from that day forward, she was his. She was filled with a sense of fulfillment and satisfaction that she had never known before. She was finally complete.

The story that I ended up making for the contest (I had posted the story first before using only AI to generate this one) was A Pleasure to Eat You

I'm not sure why the theme made me think of a vampire raping a soccer player that turned into a full blown origin story. While I still used AI while creating the story, I didn't depend on AI to create the story for me. For example, I had no idea what existed circa 9,000 BC. So I asked chatGPT to tell me ancient cities in that time period. I could have probably googled that information and did a little more research, but chatGPT was faster in this case. I then asked it what kind of gods would they believe in around that time. From that information I used the idea that an apprentice to a shaman made a mistake during a ritual that caused a demon to merge into the apprentice - similar to Anne Rice's origins of vampires in the books she has written.

Then I created a character to be a detective that investigates the case and the vampire wants to rape for some reason. While writing the initial meeting of the vampire and the detective, I wanted a strip scene but had trouble coordinating my thoughts into words. So I asked chatGPT to describe a woman officer removing her uniform (it wouldn't go past removing her bra or underwear.) The result sparked enough ideas to help me get through that particular writer's block.

This is an example of what came out when I asked chatGPT

Captain Elena Ward stepped into her small, dimly lit bedroom, the low hum of the base's evening generators pulsing faintly through the walls. The day had been long — filled with briefings, inspections, and too many clipped salutes — and the quiet offered a rare kind of peace. She kicked off her boots with a muted thud, leaving them in their usual spot near the foot of the bed.

Unclipping the brass buttons of her uniform jacket, she let out a breath she didn’t realize she’d been holding all day. The rigid fabric fell away from her shoulders, revealing the simple gray undershirt beneath. She folded the jacket neatly, placing it on the chair by her desk, then unbuckled her belt and slid it free, the clink of the metal catching briefly in the quiet.

As she peeled off her regulation slacks, she glanced at the clock — late again. The cool air touched her skin as she stepped into softer, looser clothes: an old academy T-shirt and flannel sleep pants, far removed from the stiff perfection of her uniform. With a final tug of her hair tie, she let her hair fall freely around her shoulders and rubbed at the back of her neck, the weight of command finally lifting.

This is what I wrote after getting ideas from the chatGPT result. I also went back to my story At My Cousin's Wedding to remind myself of the feelings during the part where the female is coerced to strip.

Fully aware of what was happening, Michelle screamed inwardly. She did her best to resist Malachi’s telepathy, but she wasn’t anywhere near strong enough. Malachi made her sensually undress him. His body was white with a pink hue and a very large cock. Afterwards, Michelle was made to undress herself. Slowly. Her fingers moved to the buttons of her crisp navy shirt, unfastening them one by one until the fabric parted, revealing a plain white tank top beneath. She inwardly screamed in horror as she was made to shrug off the top of her uniform and put it onto her dresser. Next, Michelle unclipped the heavy utility belt from around her waist, its weight dropping with a muffled thud that matched her terrified heartbeat onto her uniform top. Her hands moved to her hips, where she unfastened her trousers, sliding them down to step out of them. Michelle placed her uniform trousers on the dresser as well. Now in just her tank top and panties, she removed her socks, feeling the cool floor beneath her feet. Michelle could feel her face flush with embarrassment as she took off her tank top, still having no control over her movements. She stood there in her underwear and was utterly mortified when Malachi made her tease him by rubbing her bra and panties. Michelle heard herself moan as she was made to pinch her nipples, making them hard underneath her bra. She felt her face burn hotter with embarrassment and humiliation. She caught a stray thought from Malachi about loving to play with his food. It disgusted Michelle to be thought of as both a sexual object and food to this creature.

There were a few other times I made inquiries to chatGPT. I needed the name of an Egyptian woman for a plot device, an ancient city in 7,000 bc. Then, I needed an opening after an 18 year time jump from raping the detective. Here's the AI generated opening.

The late afternoon sun filtered through the windshield, turning the dashboard into a stage of golden light. The tassel from Hannah’s graduation cap swung gently from the rearview mirror, a quiet reminder of the moment that had just passed.

“I still can’t believe you did it,” her mother said, keeping her eyes on the road but stealing a smile.

Hannah rolled her eyes, but a grin tugged at the corners of her lips. “Did you think I wouldn’t?”

“No,” her mom said quickly. “Well—yes. Around junior year, when you were failing chemistry and dating that boy who thought ‘molecules’ were a type of pasta… I had doubts.”

Hannah chuckled softly, leaning back in the passenger seat, her cap still perched lopsided on her head. “You didn’t have to bring up Derek.”

“I always have to bring up Derek. It’s part of my trauma healing process.”

The two shared a glance and a burst of laughter that filled the car like music. Outside the window, fields blurred into neighborhoods, and the world looked just a little different—like something had shifted, even if nothing obvious had changed yet.

Here's what I wrote from the ideas of the blurb.

As the sun dipped below the horizon, casting a warm orange glow over the suburban neighborhood, the silver car turned onto Maple Street. Inside the car, Rachel, an 18 year old high school senior, sat in the passenger seat, her navy blue graduation gown draped over her lap. Her mother, Michelle, was driving, a proud smile tugging at her lips as she glanced over at her daughter.

“Can you believe it, Mom? High school is finally over,” Rachel said, her voice a mix of excitement and nostalgia.

Rachel’s mom chuckled softly. “It feels like just yesterday you were starting kindergarten. Now look at you, all grown up and ready for the next adventure.”

So, in summary, there's nothing wrong with using AI to help enhance your stories or generate ideas. I've done it plenty of times and usually rewrite it to better fit my story or the situation I want to create. The problem comes when you depend on AI to generate the story and don't make revisions to what the AI spit out. In the last story I commented on, it was apparent that you depended on AI instead of merely using AI. I hope you can now understand the major difference between the two.

[Shocker]

No, I like opinions and discussions, but these are not discussions. These are statements made without understanding the true context. I know this is the norm now in anonymous fora. Would you do it this way when we would be face to face, or would you ask me a question? I love to hear your opinion, especially if it contrary to mine. I can only learn from it. But I am not here to teach discourse.

We all have opinions, including the aforementioned flat-earthers. But when those opinions become camouflaged accusations, they stop being harmless. Like with violating copyright law. I know that in most countries, they have not adopted their laws in regards to AI, not well anyway. I know that the lobby behind the AI industry is working hard to influence them. Or when I state I run my stories through an AI engine, make them automatically AI Generated. You have no clue on the state of the source before I used the tool, but you are happy to reach a conclusion without asking. I have noticed that AI has been build with these human flaws built into its core.

But let's stop this, it will go nowhere. I probably was naive again as I was just hoping to get some open discussion on how to use these kind of tools in the future as this bloody thing is here to stay and I am sure you have read much more AI Generated content that you think you have.

But in this case, the mistake was mine.

@Trio you started this discussion here, after as you were receiving flak. Did you expect nobody would offer a contrary opinion?

Honestly, yes I would tell you to your face exactly the same statements I have made here. I do think you have violated copyright.

I also agree to let this topic rest. We are not likely going to come to a consensus.

[HistBuff]

These systems give you bullshit answers with the confidence of a flat-earther wielding a high school diploma and a YouTube playlist. (Yep I used AI for this sentence as I could not find a good reference so quickly … and if you are a flat-earther, keep going strong my man)

Well, there are many authors out there who are actually able to come up on their own with such references as quick as a ninja-trained cobra biting the wrist of a fat tourist. This is called talent, and it's largely trainable. Getting used to AI doing the heavy lifting is a surefire way to stay weak as a writer. It can be a helping tool for a good writer, but nothing more.

I sincerely hope that copyright laws will soon be updated and muscled up so those AI people won't be allowed anymore to "train" their models using copyrighted content "in the confines of a session" without the authors' knowledge, let alone their consent. Maybe this is fair use, but maybe it is not! Would Big Tech be willing to pay ownership rights to all authors they violate the rights of?

Quoting AI... " the potential for copyright infringement arises when the AI generates outputs that are substantially similar to the copyrighted training data, or when the training data is obtained illegally."

Not long ago, two NY lawyers used AI to speed-up the process of making their case court-ready. The AI system built up six caselaw decisions OUT OF THIN AIR! It was basing arguments to be brought up in court, by referring to past decisions that didn't even exist! You can get easily disbarred for this. They're lucky they only got suspended without pay by their fuming employer -- the firm's reputation was at stake! So much for AI being about to replace lawyers.

The only usefulness to AI I see and have experienced is using it as a tool to help me write in a new language; but the end sentences are my own; anyway I always need to step in and correct because AI cartoonishly sucks at translating between German and English... I even had a sentence that sounded like "she had hard penises" because the system translated "sie" as "she". Lol.

Oh well... I agree with Shocker about letting the matter rest (and hopefully not fester).